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Date: December 27, 2007 at 11:27:57
From: JAdams
Subject: Re: Drumming Pattern - Help with Terminology


Ray - Whew! That's a good one. I think all of your terms (laid back, sloppy) work for me when I'm in the same boat.

Did you tell either drummer the tempo, "feel" and groove you were after? As you know, everybody "feels" time differently. Did you count off for drummer#1? Sounds like the 2 guitars started playing, assuming the drummer would know the feel you were looking for, but when he comes in he's really pushing the beat. Or maybe that's the tempo that he thought the gits were playing? Could be interpretation. I'm sure we've all had this happen - we've been doing a tune so long we KNOW the feel, groove, etc., but if someone sits in cold, they do something different with it. Same bass player? Not sure if that is an Albert Collins tune, but I've heard him in recordings where each of your examples would be in the ballpark as far as the groove is concerned.

Probably the easiest and best way would be to give the drummer recordings and have him (her) listen. Have they listened to your 2 examples?

An important component of a shuffle feel is the "swung" eighth note. I've included a couple of links that can describe it better than I can (you can also Google "Swing Eighth" or "shuffle"). Its really important to hear the sub-divisions of the beat. Good shuffle grooves should retain that swinging eighth feel. Pretty sure they're written in 12/8 so that the multiples of 3 are implied (if not played). Also, its much easier to get that loopy, swing at slower tempos. The faster the tempo, the more the swung eighth notes get "evened" or "straighten" out. So, tempo is really important.

http://www.musicarrangers.com/star-theory/t21.htm
http://www.accessrock.com/IntermediateLessons/ebluesshuffle.asp

As you mentioned, its really (really) important how you "play" the time (tempo). On the beat, behind or ahead (ahead or behind assume you're still close enough not to drag or rush the beat). They all effect the feel of the groove and tune. Generally, if the tempo right, but it still feels like its pushing (or dragging), have 'em adjust accordingly.

Man, that was a long post! Hope it helps a little. - J


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